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April 02, 2008


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John Dyer

I thought I felt a mystic in there. I was once taught a beautiful image for this. If you take a circle with all the colors of the rainbow painted on it and spin it it becomes white. This is an artistic expression of "one" a mathematical and religious idea meaning unity. I also know you are interested in community, which is come unity. One. :) Thanks for posting these thoughts. They are now a part of the wisdom lore, available for someone who needs to see them for as long as there is an internet.


John, you think you detect a mystic in me. I'd say these ideas are on common ground with some mystical thought -- but I tend to reach my conclusions by observation and my reading of research plus logic rather than by intuition or revelation, and to hold the thoughts as working hypotheses rather than items of faith (and so, I wouldn't be offended at logical discussion of my reasoning).

John Dyer

To my point of reference, logic ends where it begins, with its assumptions or ground. I see much more to your thought than that. But this may be a word thing or that roller coaster v. ferris wheel thing again. I get that your mind comes to conclusions based on observations and what further information you are able to take in concerning them. I would not suggest something else.

It may be as simple as the use of the words "logic" and "reason."

We may describe the details of the process of observing, learning more and considering what it means differently, but that is what I do also. I just am comfortable describing it using different words than logic or reason. For me and speaking only for me, I am personally very comfortable affirming that both my observations and sources of information to explain and validate them come through routes that include the language of color, feeling, touch, smell, taste, hearing, temperature perhaps chemicals in the air for which I may have receptors that are still functional (the debate goes on about that), non verbal cues, the language of math (although I am all not that good- can't "see" it like some), the language of music (similar issues with "seeing") intuitive thought, etc. All of these are, it seems to me, different from logic.

I recognize that a discussion of ideas is often unwieldy when one references those sources. And worse, it has in the past been used to suggest that the "female" mind is lest trustworthy than the "male" (feelings v. logic and reason).

I personally, however, am very content to "own" the "female" mind as a capacity of my own, and all the components thereof and noted above. Evolution gave them to us for a reason and although I have some times had a very difficult time persuading others that a plan or concept that came other than from word logic and linear thought was useful, it is amazing how often those folks later admit I turned out to be spot on. From this I have grown in confidence in the use of other than linear word logic and reason.

So here is my logic, evolution provides us with capacities because they are useful. Therefore, there is a reason why all these capacities other than logic and reason are all a part of the mechanism by which we understand ourselves and the world around us.

What words mean to each other play a role in this kind of discussion. To some, the word "mysticism" implies a "spiritual" world that cannot be apprehended by ordinary means (and in fact is defined by being disconnected in some way and "other worldly"). Functionally, how does one have a discussion about what someone allegedly learns from their spirit guides? I am not using mysticism in that sense of the word.

I am using mysticism in the sense of the word of one who senses he is a part of a whole rather than isolated. I don't mean logics or reasons he is part of a whole, or "Sees" he is part of a whole, but senses it. It is experimentally and analytically demonstrable that we are part of a whole rather than isolated, but mystical experience is the sensing of it.

The words which we attach to the experience are chosen by us to explain what we are experiencing, and as I mention in another post, to me reflect our limitations in knowledge as much as what we know.

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